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About Me Member Experimental Photographer kiwiburdFemale/United Kingdom Recent Activity Deviant for 5 Years
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Cleaning Out

Wed Feb 25, 2009, 5:59 AM
Just a heads up to say i'm cleaning out my gallery of allot of older photos and images i don't like or think i could have done better.
so if you liked anything save it before it goes!.
i'll also hope to get to uploading more photos from expo and such but i'll only be putting my best work here the rest will go up on flickr.

toodles~

  • Mood: Sadness
  • Listening to: Invaders must die-Prodigy
  • Reading: Pedido street station
  • Watching: Hellsing OVA
  • Eating: Mikado

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Thanks for the fave on my Witch Hunter Robin Hair Tutorial! :D I hope it helps! :D

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Well, about time you put some new photos up! XD

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Hidden by Owner
Sorry for not seeing your point as you put it. from my point of view you have stolen my images,i can see that you uploaded them without thinking and wanted to put pictures of your costume on your DA this is fair enough.

It is not my place to say but your gallery is filled with images of your costume you did not take (as you say you are in the costume).I see credit on a couple of images only so either you took the rest yourself(if so with those cams you don't need to use anyones elses images!) or you didn't credit them either,you may have had a problem finding out who they were in future i suggest saving the files as "image2BYWHOEVER.jpg" just in case.

I take pictures at meets so that i can remeber what happens there and for my own enjoyment,i post them up so others can enjoy them to.i do not take them on art merit at all hence why i don't put them on DA.

ok i accept that you did not know who took the photo,but then when you did find out when i asked you to remove it did you not?.This would be why i'm not as accepting of your apology.

sorry i took so long to reply the reason was i was checking up on copyright law with some professional photographers i know.
as to that ~You were in a public place when the photos were taken, as was i.meaning that i hold full copyright to the images and the rights to publish them.
this was mentioned on my report to DA also and they said that i should report your images because of this.the only way you can gain permission to use these images is if you purchase copyright or gain my permission.

i shall put it this way if i saved a piece of your artwork and then uploaded it to my gallery, and you noticed and asked if i would take it down and i refused.at this point everyone would cry art thief and DA would remove the image in minutes.if i then asked you if i could upload the image again of course refuse because its your work.

sorry i don't want to conform to write a model/permissions form as i don't want to lose any copyrights/permissions to my images or let others claim for my work.

i'm sorry if this seems unreasonable to you.i suggest you look at some other photographers from the meet mustan's for example as you already suggested as his images are very similar to mine,though his are watermarked.

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i trust everyone,its the devil inside them i don't trust.
I'm Maes Hughes in The Fullmetal Alchemist Crew!
Hidden by Owner
The only reason I didn't remove the photos when you told me to is because I firmly believed, and still do believe, that I have rights to the images. It was not my intention to be unreasonable or to cause trouble.

If you reported me to the Help Desk on grounds that you 'hold full copyright to the images and the rights to publish them', then why, when I contacted the Help Desk, did they inform me that, and I quote for the second time, 'models and photographers all have equal rights in photos'? Bearing in mind that I did state that the photos in question were taken at a convention, not a private photoshoot, so they were aware that the photos were taken in a public place. If they had informed me that you 'hold full copyright to the images and the rights to publish them', I probably would have given up and walked away from the argument. But what they said to me just suggests that if you refuse to agree to my conditions and let me have proof of permission (bearing in mind that this was also the Help Desk's response) then you are breaking the rules, just as I broke the rules when I refused to delete the photos when you told me to.

I'm not sure if you've actually had a look at an example of a permission form or not, but it doesn't involve signing your rights away, I assure you. It would be filled out only to the exact specifications of how both parties agree for the image to be used; in this case, just displayed on my DA gallery. You wouldn't lose any copyright at all. So I don't see your reason for refusal to be in any way valid.

And I think you must be missing something from your copyright research, because I know that I would be entriely within my rights to kick up a fuss if you dared use an image of me and my design in a way that I was not happy with. I might be wearing a mask, but that's still me in that costume. Anyone has the right to refuse let themselves or their property be photographed, as well as the right to refuse to let those photographs be used for any publication or profit. Even a criminal being filmed for TV has the right to have their face blurred if they ask for it.

I'm not oblivious to your rights as a photographer. I'm just asking you to let me have mine. For example, I just recently paid Mustan for a print of, yup, me wearing Kreek crouching over that up-light. And I would not dare to ask him for royalities or anything like that. I know that, if I had any moral objections, I could ask him not to distribute images of Kreek in this way, though I think he's only selling prints of fursuits to those fursuits' owners anyway; I was the first to buy a print from him so I'm not sure of his conditions yet. But either way I don't have any want to do that, because he is happy for me to post his photos of Kreek in my gallery, and so I'm happy with the situation. In fact, he's said to the fursuit community as a whole that he doesn't mind his photos being posted in galleries as long as he is credited. So I'm not entirely sure why you're asking me to compare your photography to his. In fact to do so would make your unreasonable objections seem even more obvious.
Hidden by Owner
Well that is your own belief then, then I can’t change that but to me it is unreasonable otherwise I would not make such a fuss over it.

Well i wish now at this point I had never uploaded the photos anywhere in the first place, as then this fiasco would not have happened.

I reported you to the help desk first asking if my observations about it being in a public place were correct they then replied they were and then told me to report the accused devations.
You’ve obviously been told differently as I’m assuming there is a fair amount of different help staff.I am conforming to what DA told ME todo so therefore I am not breaking the rules as they are the ones that suggested what I should do.
Getting a permission form is a suggestion and still requires my permission todo so therefore if I choose not to grant permission then that is my right also. And you will still not have any rights to the images.

I still don’t see why you are so adamant that you must use these photos I assume it is due to some sort of stubbornness.

If you are saying that you take away the right to photograph you I suggest you make some sort of announcement to any photographers in the future that wish to take photos of you so that this does not happen again.
yes its a costume yes its your characters but as I stated several times already unless you have copyright/trademarked works with that character in and paid for the copyright to them your character is not copyright or trademarked. And there is no difference to you being in normal cloths, you did not make them but does the copyright to its image belong to you?no.
The criminal on the TV has there face blurred because they do not wish to be identified or they cannot be for legal reasons if they have not been sentenced for a crime, this is different area of permissions entirely.

You paid mustan for a print of his photographs, as you have paid for it you can do almost anything with it so why you still insist on using my images when you have a higher resolution copy that you are entitled to do more with I have no idea. this is also another reason I will not sign a permissions slit you have access to almost identical higher quality photos so you do not need it.
Mustan print policy’s are his own and I do not sell prints or charge for my work to fursuiters or to anyone. his open policy is his own decisions but bare in mine he also watermarks all his images so when they are uploaded he has instant credit to them. as I stated before if I’m asked beforehand and credit then I don’t mind my photos being used either.

I am going to hide all but our recent replies as this is making my DA gallery distorted.

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i trust everyone,its the devil inside them i don't trust.
I'm Maes Hughes in The Fullmetal Alchemist Crew!
So how come you say that you're usually happy for people to use your photos if they simply ask your permission first, and yet you wouldn't be happy to sign a permissions form that would essentially give you complete control over how your photos are used, as opposed to only having the person's word that they will use the photos how they told you they would be used? You say that you care about how your work is used and yet you're not exactly doing all that you can to make sure that your rules for use are made clear to everyone. You made no mention when you posted your photos from the furmeet that the fursuiters you had photographed were not allowed to take your photos for their galleries, which is what they're used to doing by default. Instead you're now going around hounding individuals such as myself for what are generally innocent mistakes.

You're not doing much to create a professional and fair reputation for yourself. I mean, when you first contacted me about this issue, you spammed all three submissions with the same message which contained bad grammar and sad-face emoticons. So how exactly was I meant to take you seriously? Hence why I had to spend ages trying to identify who you were. I honestly thought you were a troll pretending to be the owner of the photos. Not really a good start.

I don't particularly care about the photos now, it's just the principal of the situation. I'm being 'stubborn' as you call it because I want you to recognise my rights as the model in your photos. This is about simply being fair to the model, an idea which you seem to be completely incapable of understanding.

And I don't feel any need to make any kind of announcement about photos because honestly I've never encountered anyone with this attitude before. The vast majority of photographers at the furmeets take photos for the fursuiters. Can you really blame people for becoming angry and upset when you then come along snapping at them for taking photos that you didn't mention weren't allowed to be taken? Also, the majority of costume photos in my gallery are either from photoshoots which are intended to be taken and used as the suiters wish, or taken by friends or relatives that aren't bothered about being credited over and over.

As for your understanding of copyright...wow. Just wow. You think you have to pay to copyright a piece of work?? If that is the case that I assume you have paid someone to display those photos in your gallery, right? You must have done, in order to be so confident in saying the you have full rights to the photos while the models that so kindly took the time to pose for you get nothing in return. And if not, I certainly want to know why I apparently have to pay for copyright and you don't.

The first and most basic rule of copyright is that any piece of work, be it a drawing, poem or piece of music, is automatically copyright to the person who created it. There is no payment or registering involved. This is what was taught to me by tutors throughout my time at university, and what I have read wherever I have studied copyright. So I would certainly like to see where you are getting your ideas from. Don't you dare tell me that I don't own copyright of my own designs. True I did not actually build the costume in question, but it was created from my character designs, and therefore both Clockwork Creature Studios and I have rights to those photos.

It comes right back to the main problem; you have ownership of the photo because you took it. This is completely fair and understood, and I apologised for making the mistake or uploading them without crediting you. However, I hold copyright of the character featured in the photos and therefore rightfully have a say in how the images can be used; this is what you do not seem to be able to accept. This kind of situation requires collaboration that you are obviously not willing to comply with. And if that continues to be the case then you need to start asking people for permission before you photograph them, otherwise you're going to end up in trouble with a lot of people.
because i do not wish to make very poor person i photograph ot sign a form that will never be used, it would give me control only if people choose to sign it which in the rush, bussle and excitement of a meet or convention people will not and i do not want to but people todo so.
No i did not post that i do not want my photos being reposted without credit.As i said had more faith in a small fandom i know now i was wrong and of course in future i intend to take full precautions.

well i made a hurried comment in a moment of haste, I’m sorry but i do not get paid for my work so i'm not professional. i'm worry my moment of bad grammar offended you, but this is a serious matter weather you consider it one or not.

i'm sorry it almost offends me as a photographer that you think all the photographer are there for your as a fursuiter and that that gives you the rights photos. the photospheres are there for themselves, granted they are there to take photographers of the fursuiters that does not give you the right to them. they are not there to be your own photo source because someone could not be bothered to bring there own camera.
allot of the photographer form the meet don't even post there photos on display or on the boards so they of course cannot be for the fursuiters either.

as i said SEVERAL times i was not talking about copyright of the work itself, because yes that is automatically copyrighted i was referring to the copyright of the character in the images, also by the same automatic copyright you have stated that mages the images my copyright as well.

I don’t see any point in continuing this argument as I see you have uploaded allot of photos recently of kreek to your gallery so assume you have no need of my images anymore.I will agree to disagree and hope we can go on our separate ways.

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i trust everyone,its the devil inside them i don't trust.
I'm Maes Hughes in The Fullmetal Alchemist Crew!

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